Monday, June 9, 2008
Extremely Loud--Reign Over Me (film)
View the film Reign Over Me (R), featuring Adam Sandler, and compare and contrast the film's treatment of survival, loss, sorrow, guilt, love, family, and other topics with the novel's. What do they have in common? What do those commonalities reveal? What are the major differences between how the film and novel explore these issues?
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This is just some information, and is not intended to count as a blog post.
Reign Over Me will be on television tomorrow (June 11th) at 3:30 and 8:10 pm on Starz-Cinema. This is channel 538 for Comcast subscribers. Obviously, if you don't have a Starz package, you are out of luck. If you do, however, I thought this might allow a few more people participate in this conversation.
In the movie and the book the main characters have both suffered a tremendous loss. It is interesting to see how each of the characters deal or handle that loss. They do things that are similar and things that are different. I knew that both characters had family that died in the World Trade Center, but when the characters were introduced they did not talk about it right away. They talked about some random stuff that takes their mind of off their loss. For example, Adam Sandler's character, Charlie Fineman, plays a weird video game all the time, and Oskar talks about his jujitsu class. Both these things give the character's mind an escape from the reality of their losses. Even Oskar says, "And also, there are so many times when you need to make a quick escape"(2).
Even though the two seem similar, they start to differ from each other. Oskar starts to talk about old memories of his dad while Charlie wants to forget he had a family. Charlie denies he had a family and attempts to live his life without any influence from his family. Oskar remembers various conversations he had with his father, and when they played, "Reconnaissance Expedition"(8). At first Oskar would not talk about his father, but there would be moments where he would mention him. With Charlie if anyone attempts to bring up his family he will deny it, change the subject, or break down. Oskar is happy with some moments of sadness and Charlie is sad with some moments that show his humor.
So it looks as if both are different when really there are more similarities. While Charlie forgets his family and Oskar continues with his life, they are both greatly influenced by the ones they lost. Charlie constantly redoes his kitchen because his wife wanted too, and he is not sure what she would like. Oskar says phrases in his daily life that his father said to him like,"The weather is one hundred dollars"(30). He learned that phrase in the letter his dad wrote to him. Charlie and Oskar have many different and similar ways in which they deal with their loss.
Even though no one else is blogging on this topic, I am going on with it because I love movies and this topic.
I found more interesting similarities and difference between Charlie and Oskar as I continue to read the book. This deals in the way that the character trys to let go of their loss. Charlie is forcing himself to move on from the loss while Oskar will not let go, let alone try. When talking to Ron he tells him, " 'You're not my dad, and you never will be' "(3), because he will never let go of him. Oskar constantly looks for any contact he can get from his father even though he is gone, the clues. Oskar can use these clues to remember his dad's life. All the pictures and things that Charlie has of his family is shoved away in a room never to see the light of day. Charlie convinces himself he has moved on even though he thinks about his loss all the time, as Oskar constantly thinks about his dad.
At the end of the movie Charlie is better and moves out of his old apartment and there is a scene where Charlie meets a new girl and sort of flirts with her. This proves Charlie is somewhat healed and has moved on. However, I do not know if Oskar will ever move on because I have yet to finish the book.
Oskar's hunt for clarity on his father's death takes his mind off of the reality that he is gone because the clues keep coming as if Tom is still alive hiding them. These clues remind Oskar of his dad's life and not his death. When Charlie sees old photographs and schoolwork his kids did, he is only reminded of their death and not their life. This is another difference between them. Overall the book and the movie depict both similar and different ways in how a person who has lost someone in a tragedy handles it and survives through it.
I agree with Will j w in that there are some similarities as well as differences in how the two characters deal with their tragedies. They both have hobbies that they do to push the thoughts about their lost ones away. I agree that it gives them an escape from reality and thinking about their losses but I think both hobbies represent defeating their tragedies/losses as well. Charlie plays his video game in which the goal of the game seems to be that you have to defeat the giant monster. Oskar takes his jujistu classes, where the goal is to defeat your opponent. Another similarity I saw between the two characters is random anger and violence. Charlie threw a drink on Alan in the bar the first night that they hung out. And then he went hysterical in Alan’s office and destroyed the place. Oskar has extremely disturbing and violent thoughts during one of his hamlet plays on page 146.
I find it interesting that Oskar seems to handle his loss better than Charlie, despite how much younger he is. Unlike Oskar, Charlie cannot even mention his family, while Oskar mentions and thinks about his dad all the time. Charlie becomes so paranoid about people trying to help him or get him to talk about his family. Oskar seems to seek out things that might bring him closer to his dad. Oskar still suffers a great deal from the loss of his dad but not in such an obvious way as Charlie.
I actually noticed a similarity between Charlie and Oskar’s grandfather. They both lose different forms of communication after losing a loved one. When Oskar’s grandfather lost Anna he slowly lost his words. Charlie always has his headphones with him. He uses them to distract himself from thoughts about his family. Unlike Oskar’s grandfather Charlie can’t lose his hearing completely, so he puts his headphones on whenever his family is brought up.
I agree completely with what Will J W has said about the two characters, Oskar and Charlie. I find it interseting now after already seeing the movie once before to watch it again after reading some of this book and think about this topic because it was kind of fun to be able to see these two characters and compare them. Like what Will and Rachel both said the characters each have their differences in the way they handle their losses. Oskar chooses to hold on to every memory of his father he has where as Charlie chooses to drown out their memory with loud music and mindless Playstation 2 games. What I did think was really interesting about Charlie, was that in a way he subconsciously held on to the memory of his wife by always changing the kitchen because that was what his wife wanted him to do that before she died. And also I thought that Oskar was kind of doing the same thing by trying to find all these clues. It's like these clues are like the expeditions his father would send him on and doing this one brings him closer to his father in a way. One thing I thought was most interesting, was how Charlie used Don Cheadle's character to escape from his old life because he never knew his family and only knew him in college, and how he basically just stopped talking to anyone who even knew his family or was a part of his life when they were still alive because that way they would never get brought up. In the end, there are hope for these characters, they both grow and deal with their losses even though it may be harder for one than the other, but they will move on and be able to live their lives. This is shown when Charlie and that girl have a kind of moment at the end of the movie. And also, although i haven't finished the book yet I believe that somehow Oskar's journey will bring him closure. This has been Stephen K W saying good luck and good night.
The two differences and similarities between the book and the film that struck me the most were the actions and mind-set of the characters. Both Oskar and Charlie suffered a tremendous loss but it was very interesting to see how their decisions affected their lives. The actions of Charlie were very quick and violent. He would snap at strangers, yell at his friends, and thought everyone was trying to ask him personal questions. His fits of rage were brought on by someone talking about his family or about his past. Oscar’s actions were exactly opposite of Charlie. Even though Oskar thinks about exploding at people like his therapists or at Jimmy Snyder he never dose. He matins a calm personality and allows people to talk about his family.
Although the actions of Charlie and Oskar differ, the mind-set of the two characters is almost identical. When Oskar looks for the key, his mind is totally focused on finding the puzzle to his father’s death. Oskar is so persistent with the key because he loves his father and wants to keep the relationship strong. Charlie is in the exact situation. Before his wife died, she had told Charlie to redo the kitchen. Charlie planned his days around fixing up the kitchen so his wife would love it. Just like Oskar, Charlie is persistent in making his kitchen perfect because he still loves his wife.
One of the main differences that popped out at me was how they communicated with people. As other people have said Charlie doesn't talk about his family much while on the other hand Oskar seems more open and willing to talk about his dad even though at times he has trouble with it. In some points in the book Oskar uses the fact that his father is dead to gain sympathy so he can get closer to the secret of the key. Charlie doesn't use sympathy, the fact is he doesn't want sympathy, he just wants to be left alone. As Don Cheadle says, "Just leave him alone, call off the dogs."
Though Charlie and Oskar have differences they also have many similarities. They both hold on to something that not very many people know about. For Charlie it's the kitchen remodeling and for Oskar it's the answering machine. But there is something physical to hold on to other then their memories
The book and the movies have some differences and some similarities about them. To start things off both the main characters have both lost a loved one. In the book Oskar has lost his Dad and in the movie Charlie has lost his wife, two daughters, and his dog from the same tragic event. They both try to cope with the death of their loved ones differently Oskar looks for what the missing key goes to and Charlie tries to cope by listening to music or fixing his kitchen a lot of times the way that he thinks that his wife would of liked it. I think that they both do these for different reason’s Oskar does it to remember his dad and Charlie tries to forget his loved ones so he doesn’t feel hurt from that awful tragedy. Charlie feels guilty for staying home while his family went on vacation and that he didn’t ever renovate the kitchen. Last Oskar doesn’t really have family to talk to. He still has his mom and grandma but they don’t really talk to him about his dad’s death. Charlie only has his mother-in-law and father-in-law from his wife and they want to help Charlie cope with the death of his family, but he was jealous that they had each other to get through the pain of the death of their daughter and grandchildren and the dog. But it finally gets through to him that they were trying to help him not hurt him. They both have differences and similarities but they both lost a loved on in the tragic event.
Unlike many of you, I believe that the reactions towards loss between the two main characters are completely opposite of one another. Two apparent examples are seen in how each one treats their loss. While Charlie refuses to think about his lost family, Oskar refuses to not think about his father. This example alone demonstrates how drastically different the characters treat tragic loss. However, Charlie's treatment of his loss was eventually defeated and a visit to a psychologist sent him into a downward spiral. This is what allowed Oskar and Charlie to be similar. That night, Charlie threatened two cops with an empty gun, hoping to be shot in return. Oskar has had similar thoughts, stating he "would carry the biggest stone i could bear and let my lungs fill with water" (pg. 82). However, their are similarities in how the people close to Charlie and Oskar treat their depression. Most seem to think that therapy is the best way to 'heal' the characters, and both of them seem to think it is a waste of time, with charlie using various methods to avoid it. Still, with these similarities, the two characters seem to deal with their pain very differently. Oskar chooses to hurt by thinking about it, and adds to the pain by physically giving himself bruises (as seen on pg.90). Charlie chooses to live as happily and carefree as he can, living in a nice apartment with many luxuries and activities to take his mind off of his loss.
However, I think it is important that we examine other characters featured in both stories. Rachel H P touched on this a bit earlier with Oskar's grandfather, but there are so many characters that have suffered a loss in either story that it is an injustice to the topic to address only Charlie and Oskar. For example, the old man that is traveling with Oskar, Mr. Black, handles the loss of his wife quite differently than both of the main characters. He says that "thinking about [his wife] is the next best thing" to having her around (pg. 154). This is just one example. Perhaps it would be interesting to address these other characters, as most of us have already expressed our views on the main characters.
Kyle s f has a good point when he says, "there are so many characters that have suffered a loss in either story that it is an injustice to the topic to address only Charlie and Oskar". Everyone handles a loss differently. Whether you block out the memory and remove yourself from society like Charlie did or openly talk about it like Oskar did. Oskar's mom mourns secretively and moves on by dating Ron.
No matter how you mourn a loss it always seems like there is a person trying to tell you to mourn differently. Charlie's in-laws try to get him to move on and reach out to people while Oskar tries to get his mother to stay openly sad, Oskar says to his mom , "It's just that you don't act like you miss him very much" (170). Oskar thinks that just because someone doesn't cry, then they aren't sad.
Both of the main characters have suffered greatly by losing family member(s). Both of them have dealt with it very differently. In the novel Oskar always tries to hold onto what his father left behind. He always holds onto what he can remember about his father but in the movie Charlie (Adam Sandler) tries to forget everything in his past so he will never feel the pain again. But every time someone mentions anything that reminds him of his family he throws a fit and yells at that person. He instantly becomes immature when someone says anything to remind him of his wife or his three daughters. In the novel Oskar holds on with everything he has to remember his father. Oskar even tells about all of the memories he had with his father so he will never forget him. He is very different from Charlie because he actually wants to remember his father while Charlie just pretends like he cannot remember anything in his past.
I like what Will j w said about, "It is interesting to see how each of the characters deal or handle that loss." I found that concept of the movie very interesting as well. The fact that two people who virtually suffered the same loss can act so different. It's just eerie how a tragedy such as this can change so many people's lives in a matter of seconds. It's sort of overpowering by how much people change. Like Charlie not really being able to trust anyone unless he knows that they didn't know his family. In the movie Charlie's habits change because of the accident. He separates himself, quits his job, and consistently remodels his kitchen. In Oskar's case his personality and morals seem to change, "The next morning I told Mom that I couldn't go to school, because I was too sick. It was the first lie I had tell" (38). It was the first lie he had to tell, because of the death of his dad Oskar needed to lie to ultimately and supposedly get close to his father.
Both the film and the novel explore the issues surrounding September eleventh very differently. Over the course of the film, I noticed that issues like love, family, and loss were conveyed in an invisible way. Charlie always refuses to listen or talk about his wife and children. He likes to deny the fact that he ever had a family and likes to keep his personal feelings hidden form the world. Music, which was one of Charlie’s fallbacks, was a way for him to tune out the world, cover up his feelings, and become invisible. It is only about halfway into the film that the audience sees for the first time what Charlie’s family was like. Other than the fact that Charlie’s wife wanted him to redo the kitchen, we do not know much about his family. The same issues in the novel were conveyed in a more open and exposed way. As the novel progresses, many secrets are uncovered about Oskar and his family. The reader is never left in the dark about Oskar and his father’s life and the relationship the two shared. We know that Oskar’s father ran a family jewelry store, was very smart, and that his father left before he was born. Also the different points of views like Oskar and his grandma and grandpa help us better understand Oskar’s family and his father’s past.
In an earlier post, Rachel H P introduced a very good idea about Charlie and Oscar’s grandpa both loosing their voice. “They both lose different forms of communication after losing a loved one.” This statement shows us that everyone, and not just the main characters, were affected by tragic events. Charlie has a very hard time communicating with people and listens to music when he can’t speak. Oscar’s grandpa has to convey his feelings and thoughts through a book because he can’t speak either.
At first it was easy to compare Oskar and Charlie but now I think it is hard to compare Charlie and Oskar because of their age differences and maturity levels. An older person might be able to handle this loss while a child could be seriously affected by a loss at an early age. What really happens is that Charlie is more mature and understands how permanent and sudden this loss is. Although Charlie does not handle it like and adult with all his temper tantrums and rude behavior. Oskar seems to continue with his life in an adult way without any outbursts and he is still polite to some people. But I do not think he fully comprehends this loss and has some false hope because of all this contact from the grave. What I have learned from these two is that eveyone has to find their on way after a tragedy and there is no right or wrong way to grieve a loss.
In the novel it states that there were places in his father's apartment that they blocked off so they could be nonexistent. In the movie Charlie (Adam Sandler) blocked off rooms that he never went into because that is where he hid the things that reminded him of his family. In a way he blocked off the things that did not exist anymore to him. He did not want to remember that part of his life so anything in his past he pretty much blocked off into empty rooms that he never went into. In the novel they try to have some things not exist so if something went into the spaces they blocked off in their apartment no longer existed. Both of the main characters lost family member(s) in 9-11 and they both handled it very differently.
When I read more I found out more comparisons and differences with Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close and Reign Over Me. I think that when Oskar and Charlie go to their therapist they want to leave once they felt pressured or didn’t feel like talking about deeper things about their feelings or family members that have died. They both ask if they can leave or if the time is up for there session so they don’t have to talk about those things to bring back those memories.
Another similar thing that their therapists thinks is that Oskar and Charlie are wasting their time by not talking about the main things they are therefore. Mr. Fein and Charlie’s therapist always discuses what they want to do for their next session but they never get to the point. Oskar and Charlie both get mad at the therapists when they push them to tell more about the story of their loved ones. Lashing out is one thing they also have income though Charlie does it more than Oskar and does it at any random moment at his friends and mother and father-in-law. Oskar is more in controlled about lashing out he has only lashed out at his mom and therapist.
But they still have their differences Oskar accomplishes things by burying them deep inside of him. Charlie accomplishes things by working on the kitchen like his wife wanted to and trying to forget his good family memories. Oskar has plans but doesn’t want to do them like “I’ll try to go to school” “Maybe I’ll try to be more patient with morons” “I’ll try not to ruin thing by getting to emotional.” “I will try to be nicer to my mom.”(203) Charlie tries to move on by doing what his wife would of wanted him to have done, but still can’t get over how his family is gone. So he does what is best and to finally move on. You may say they are both similar because Charlie does bury his memories but then finally lets them out by telling Alan Johnson, his college roommate. I think that he shows that he doesn’t want to burry his feelings about his family by finishing the kitchen.
I agree with what Marissa A said that "that Oskar and Charlie try to ignore their therapists and they try to change the subject whenever they feel pressured or they did not feel like talking about the death of their loved ones." Both of these characters try to use distractions when someone reminds them of the grief they suffered. They use very different things to keep them distracted so they will not think of their family members. Charlie on one hand uses his headphones to distract himself from trying to think of his three daughters and his wife. He listens to one song in particular called Reign On Me. Oskar uses his obsession with the key he found to not talk about his father's death. Oskar and Charlie both use distractions so they can keep from talking about their family members death. They both try to forget that they lost loved ones but they end up only thinking about their loved ones. Both of these people try to use distractions so they will not think of their family members but these distractions only work for so long.
Aside from all of the similarities that have already been thoroughly discussed, I also noticed that in extremely hard times, Oskar would bruise himself to try to make things feel better and after Charlie finally told Alan about his three daughters and wife, he was having such a hard time thinking of his family, which he had pushed out of his mind for such a long time, that he was thinking about committing suicide or threatening to kill a policeman so the policeman would kill him instead.
Two other characters who i thought were a lot alike are Mr. Black and Alan Johnson. Both of them are great friends to either Charlie or Oskar. The best examples I could think of are when Oskar and Mr. Black are going to visit Ruth Black at the Empire State Building, Mr. Black went up to the renter who he had noticed was and had been following them for quite some time, and told him to leave Oskar alone. That shows how much he cares for Oskar and doesn't want him to get hurt. Also when Charlie went on his rampage in Alan's dental office and hit down all the pictures on the wall and knocked over a lamp, Alan still forgave him and continued to stick by Charlie's side.
Finally i would like to make a statement about what Will J said when he wrote that Oskar didn't fully comprehend the loss of his father and had false hope. I think Oskar understood very well that his father was gone for good, but just wanted to be closer to him even though he was gone. When Oskar and Mr. Black went to dig up his dad's coffin Oskar knew that it would be empty, so i think he comprehended the death just fine, although he obviously didn't want to have to comprehend such a tragic matter at such an early age.
After reading these posts I’ve noticed that most people have mentioned that Charlie is pushing thoughts about his family away or he “tries to forget everything in his past so he will never feel pain again.” However Charlie said himself that he thinks about his family all the time, and that he even sees them in other people. I think that the only reason Charlie really dislikes when people mention his family is because they usually only say things that remind him that his family is dead. This is first shown in the beginning of the movie when Alan and Charlie were in the bar and Alan asked him if he wanted to look for other women because his wife was gone and Charlie threw his drink on him.
I think it is somewhat the same with Oskar, he thinks about his father all the time. He is a little bit better about having others mention his father but he has had several times where he hasn’t reacted any better than Charlie when it comes to talking about his father. Oskar has lashed out at his therapist and his mother. This is just something that I noticed.
In both the movie Reign Over Me and the book Extremely Loud Incredibly Close both of the main characters suffer tragic losses of their loved ones. In Reign Over Me Charlie lost both his wife and his daughter and in Extremely Loud Incredibly Close Oskar looses his father. They both handle it kind of the same way and are both in denial about it. In the movie Charlie won't talk about his family and he stopped talking to people who knew him when he was with his family because he wanted to forget his past. Charlie however, will mention how his father died but will not explain how (Page. 90) "I said, Thomas Schell was my dad." "And?" "Was. Not is. He's dead". Oskar could have mentioned how me died but he chooses not to, this happens in a few other instances as well. Also, Oskar is about 30 years younger than Charlie and he copes with his loss in a lot more mature fashion than Charlie does. Charlie isolates himself from the world. Thinking that will help him, he holds all of his pain inside. Charlie convinced his self he did not know them and he tries to completely delete his past by not talking about it and living in denial. Charlie remodeling his house so much shows that. Oskar on the other hand, searches for answers. Charlie does not want to know the answer to what happened Oskar does by searching New York for who the blacks are and trying to find out if that key means anything.
A similarity i have noticed that no one else has written about is the guilt that both Charlie and Oskar were dealing with throughout the entire book/movie. Charlie feels guilty that on the day before he lost his family he yelled at his wife. He deals with the guilt by continuously remodeling his kitchen that his family discussed doing before the terrorist attack on 9-11. Although Charlie tries not to think about the death of his family he still holds on to them a little bit by trying to please them with the kitchen. Similarily, Oskar feels guilt about not answering the phone when he saw it was his dad calling on the "worst day". He says "I wanted to pick it up but i couldn't" (301). Oskar deals with the guilt by trying to find the lock that the key goes to. I think that Oskar believes when he finds the lock he won't feel the guilt as much because the key would bring him closer to his father. Both Charlie and Oskar have similar ways of dealing with their guilt, even though they have different ways of dealing with thier loss overall.
As I watched the film i noticed similarities and diiferences between Charlie and Oskar. Charlie's way of dealing with his suffering is becoming solitary and pushing everyone away. He refuses to tell his story and lashes out anyone that tries to make him. Oskar is opposite; he often just blurts out what happened to his Dad without even being asked and when he is asked he doesn't hesitate to tell. Oskar still talks to everyone in his life, but Charlie isolates himself from everyone that reminds him of his family.
Both characters find a special person to hold onto during their time of suffering, Charlie's is Alan and Oskar's is Mr. Black. They seek companionship and help from these people. Charlie and Oksar both take on tasks to bring them closer to their loved ones. Charlie redoes his kitchen and Oskar tries to find the lock that fits the key. Each character has their own ways of dealing wiht the pain they are enduring, but the do have another thing in common, they both get extremely angry at times and yell at people. These examples reveal that people suffering from loss in a similar situation experience mostly the same emotions but handle them in different ways.
I have thought more into this topic and Oskar and Charlie both kind of loose communication with their past. Osker not has drastically as Charlie does, but he is also much younger. Charlie looses communication with his whole past thinking that would save him. Oskar looses with his mother, the most living thing to him since he did loose his father. So instead he becomes closer to Lenny the homeless man, or The mail woman or the blacks. Charlie reacts in a different way and just secludes himself from the rest of the world. I agree with Will J W when he says "Oskar's hunt for clarity on his father's death takes his mind off of the reality that he is gone because the clues keep coming as if Tom is still alive hiding them. These clues remind Oskar of his dad's life and not his death." I think Oskar likes the fact he found the key because he feels his dad left that for him so he could maybe find the reason why he died. Instead of accepting the fact that his father died in 9/11.
Katheryn G P brings up a good point when she says that both Oskar and Charlie have some regret and guilt from their tragic losses. For Charlie, it was yelling at his wife the morning before her death, and Oskar did not answer the phone when his Dad called for the last time inside the collapsing building. In my first post on this topic I talked about the mind-set of each of the characters, but neglected the fact that both Charlie and Oskar had regrets about their actions. The regrets for both Charlie and Oskar add to the many factors of why Charlie still remodels his kitchen, and why Oskar still searches for the key. Oskar wants to find the key so he can solve the puzzle of his father’s death. “I need to know how he died…So I can stop inventing how he died. I’m always inventing”(256). The regret from not picking up the phone is why he still pushes to find what the key is for. Charlie remodels the kitchen so it is just right because he wants his wife to forgive him and forget about the fight they had.
In both the book and movie at the end, Oskar and Charlie seem to be able to move on slightly, but definately not forget. For Charlie, he meets a woman and starts to flirt with her, and that's a big step for him considering that he barely talked to anyone except his landlord and Alan. For Oskar, on the bottom of page 324, he says to his mom "It's OK if you fall in love again." which shows me that he is showing improvement because in the beginning of the book, he is angry that his mom is having a good time and laughing with Ron. I find it interesting how two different ways of grieving can result in nearly the same way.
Something else i noticed was that both Oskar and Charlie had some family but chose not to talk to them about the tragedy of losing a loved one. Charlie cut his family out completely and pretended not to notice them when they called his name. Oskar on the other hand talked to his mom and grandma but definately not about anything to do with his dad, until the very last pages of the book, when he talked to his mom. Lastly, I found it interesting that Oskar chose to tell his mom that he would be happy and nornal again soon, (p.323) considering that he hadn't talked to her at all throughout the entire novel.
There is another similarity between the characters Charlie and Oskar that hasn't been mentioned yet. I'm bringing it up while the blogs are sortof on a topic of communication, since I noticed something about what the characters are not able to communicate. Or simply what they choose not to.
After their losses they each hold onto something for a long time, and eventually, they have to end up telling someone because of how burdening it is. I find it interesting that while the hindering for each character was similar, how they each were freed from their heavy load was much different. In Oskar's case the burden is the messages from his father left on the phone's answering machine. He had decided to show it to a man he barely knew; "the renter." In the film, what Charlie needs to let out is something bigger, the entire story of his loss. And he tells it out to his college roommate, Alan Johnson, who, (unlike "the renter's" relationship with Oskar), had become a good, supportive friend of Charlie's.
This is Alexandra P W.While Katheryn G P belives that "Oskar and Charlie seem to be able to move on slightly, "I see it differently. At the end of Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close, Oskar seems to be stuck in the exact spot he has been throughout the novel-wishing his dad were still alive. Oskar, on the last page of the novel, speaks of how his father "Would have done" this and that if Oskar could turn back time. While Oskar sometimes shows signs of moving on with his life, this ultimately proves to me that he has not. If this is how Oskar feels on the very last page, he has not moved on. Charlie, on the other hand, does show some signs of stepping forward. The most powerful example of this being when he speaks with his wife's family. By talking about the loved ones he lost, Charlie proves how he is making progress. He is finally stepping out(slowly) into the world again.
Katheryn G P also brought up the issue of how neither Oskar not Charlie want to discuss their loss with their family. The reason for this, i believe, is partially because Oskar and Charlie want to appear strong in this situation. Oskar especially wnts to be strong for his mother and grandmother. Oskar does not want to upset his mother and he also does not want to appear weak by talking about his "heavy boots" Oskar's reluctance to talk about his father with his family is out of both pride and respect. In Charlie's case, I think that he is not ready to be a part of all of the tears that would come with speaking to his wife's parents. He can barely handle himself and definitely would break down in front of his wife's family.
Another similariyt I saw with the book and movie is that they both use humor to tell a sad story. While both stories are of loved ones lost in 9/11, funny moments really make the story a bit humorous. Charlie rides around on a scooter, lines books up in his hall, and is blatantly blunt. Oskar is also quite frank, invents things, and likes the zippers on his mother's dresses. Both of these characters are hilarious, therefore adding humor to the stories. This method of humor to tell a sad tale ia a similarity that makes these tales strangely ... well similar.
One similarity that i noticed is that both Oskar and Charlie are given a type of new beginning. Charlie is given the beautiful woman and Oskar is given a type of new father figure from his mother's new friend, Ron.
Charlie is a bit more accepting of this opening door, telling his old college room mate, Alan that the woman is absolutely gorgeous. Charlie even watches her from behind a corner as she leaves, he is so taken by her.
Oskar, on the other hand, is very hateful towards the new member in his life. He becomes resentful and distressed when he hears them laughing together.(p171)In the very last pages of the book, after Oskar finds out that his key has nothing to do with his father, he finds out that Ron lost his entire family in a car crash(p315)And just a few pages later, Oskar begins to move on, or at least allow himself to realise that the world will move on. 'I told her,"It's OK if you fall in love again"'(p324)
After watching the film Reign Over Me, I realized it carried the same sorrow and portrayal of loss as Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close. Though many of the bloggers on this topic compared Oskar and Charlie, I find more similarities between Charlie and Thomas Schell. Nevertheless, all four main characters in Extremely Loud and Charlie in the film Reign Over Me show similarities in how they deal with loss, but also many differences.
Charlie and Thomas both refuse, to some extent, to talk about and remember those who they lost. While Thomas loses his desire to speak, Charlie seems to lose his hold on life in general. He simply goes through the motions, avoiding everyone from his past, until he and Alan run into each other and start spending time together. This is a turning point for Charlie, though small, when Alan comes into his life he sort of rescues Charlie. Similarly, when Thomas Schell finally meets Oskar face to face, it’s the first time he is given something to live for since Anna. They meet every night to plan the digging up of Oskar’s dad’s grave, talk about what to fill it with, etc. Thomas Schell decides to fill the empty casket with all of his letters to his son that he never mailed. This symbolizes that he is finally at peace with the fact that he couldn’t be where his son was.
The way that Charlie sometimes handles certain situations when his past is brought up he gets extremely angry. For example when Charlie goes to Alan’s office and Alan asks Charlie if he misses being a dentist. Charlie flips out and starts knocking shelves off walls and breaking things. Oskar, too, sometimes, gets very mad when his Dad’s death is brought up, particularly with his mom. For example, on page 171, when Oskar tells his mom, “If I could have chosen [which parent to die], I would have chosen you!”. Oskar and Charlie clearly have some anger problems associated with the way they deal with their loss.
This topic calls for more than just a comparison in characters, and I'm going to delve down that path, as I feel that the discussion on the differences between Charlie and Oskar is getting stale.
Let us take a look at how each piece reflects and treats the events of 9/11. Both of the main characters within the novel are a victim of the 9/11 attacks, however, each piece uses the attacks differently within the plot to achieve certain effects.
Oskar presents the audience with many more visuals and allusions to the event. This allows the event to be a focal point of the novel, and has even been hailed as the "9/11 story we need" (Salon). The novel opens itself up as a book about 9/11 victims, and shows real emotion in its portrayal of the effects the attack had. The book had many eye-opening images that show its relation to the event (such as the last twenty pages of the book, which show a man falling--in reverse--from the twin towers) and how important the event was to the plot line of the novel.
However, in Reign Over Me, there are fewer references to 9/11 within the movie. There are so few, in fact, that a viewer that got distracted once or twice during the movie may not even realize the event and movie are related at all. Honestly, all of the 9/11 allusions in Reign Over Me could be removed, and a movie just as powerful would have emerged. Because Reign Over Me is a movie that focuses more on the suffering of Charlie, and not the cause of the suffering, the film uses the events of 9/11 to illustrate why Charlie is in the position he is, but adds little else.
As you can see, the two stories handle the 9/11 events in completely different ways, furthering differing the two pieces from each other.
Jennifer M W brings up a good point about the characters of Thomas and Charlie, that they "both refuse, to some extent, to talk about and remember those who they lost." And she also mentioned how each character is able to change and once again talk about their grief. This was interesting to me because it seemed to be one of the stronger character-connections that has been discussed, and it didn't even include the book's main character!
I know the last few blogs have been trying to stray from the Charlie/Oskar comparisons, but I just came up with another. It deals with the topic of loss in the two sources. In Reign Over Me Charlie says he sees his lost wife everywhere, and her face in other people's faces. Oskar is also constantly reminded of his father like in elevators, or when he first spoke to the renter.... "Then he shrugged his shoulders, just like Dad used to" (pg 257).
Along with Foer’s portrayal of loss, love is a main, key theme to the novel. The love between Oskar and his Dad is shown, along with Thomas Schell’s love for Anna, Grandma’s love for Oskar, etc. In the movie Reign Over Me the love Charlie feels for his late family is shown, the love Doreen’s parents feel for Doreen is shown, and especially the love Alan feels for Charlie.
Love is what is left after loss. And loss is what is left after love. In both stories we see the struggle of loving after having lost. Thomas Schell exhibits this struggle very strongly. He cannot find himself loving anything- not even life or his wife. However, I do believe we get to see a little bit of a turn around when he meets Oskar. For the first time in 40 plus years Thomas slightly opens up with someone other than the Grandmother. Now, don’t get me wrong. It’s nothing drastic, but it is something.
In the film, Doreen’s parents are desperate to connect with their son-in-law, but Charlie refuses to see them. He wants nothing to do with his past- anything before the girls died is out of the question. He wants nothing that will remind him and make him think of his family. Similarly, in the novel, Thomas Schell will only make love to Oskar’s grandma from behind (p 84) because he does not want to be reminded of Anna. Charlie and Thomas have this in common: they are stuck in the past, trying to escape, but at the same time they do not want to, because if they did, they would have tried harder. They both lost what was everything to them, and from there, steadily declined, until finally they started going back up again.
Alexandra P.W. I really liked Kyle S F's look into the more complex aspects of this topic. Therefore, I would like to continue to expand this subject. I definitely agree with Kyle S's statement that "Oskar presents the audience with many more visuals and allusions to the event(9/11)," however, I think that there is more to it than that. In Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close, the reader becomes closely connected to Oskar. Be it with pictures, words or just his way of talking, there is a certain intimate connection there. I do not think that this is strictly related to 9/11. Oskar is a more personable character in comparison with Charlie.
Since it has been established that both Charlie and Oskar act and deal with loss similarly, I wanted to explore what this reveals. How could two people so many years apart be so alike? The answer is that while they are physically years apart, their mentalities are very close. Both characters, because of the losses they have faced, have stopped mentally aging. For Oskar, this was an easier process. Since he is only 9 years old, the loss of his father just stopped him from aging inside. Oskar shut down because of his father's death. Charlie, on the other hand, became very childish after the loss of his family. For him, it was simpler to act like a child with no worries or problems than to deal with losing those he loves. This way of coping with loss is apparent in both characters. Both Charlie and Oskar act younger than they really are because of the losses they have suffered.
It is hard to be original in this post, when most of what I want to say has already been said. Jennifer M is correct when she says, "Both refuse, to some extent, to talk about and remember those who they lost." Oskar, however, seems to deal with it better than Charlie, in my opinion. Although I thought Oskar's way of dealing with the death was odd, compared to Charlie Fineman, it does not seem as severe. At the end of the book when he was talking to Mr. William Black, he seems to be able to talk through it normally, despite the tears. Charlie on the other hand would react in fits of rage."I told him, 'I don't understand.' I kicked his door and told him, 'You're breaking your promise.' I pushed him and shouted, 'It isn't fair!' I got on my tiptoes and put my mouth next to his ear and shouted, 'Fuck you!' No. I shook his hand..." (page 254) Obviously, Oskar wants to respond in rage, but he has enough self control to swallow his temper, unlike Charlie. They were similar in the sense though that they both connected to different things after their family members' death. Charlie clung to remodeling the kitchen, playing video games, and collecting vinyls. Oskar invented things in his head, and made bead bracelets with Morse codes within the beads. "'...I'm always inventing.'" (page 256)
Alex P said that, “Oskar is a more personable character in comparison with Charlie.” If this is because Oskar has less fits of rage and chooses to use self-control most of the time, than I agree. However, Oskar only lost one person in the attacks. Charlie lost his wife and his three daughters, so for Charlie, the loss is greater, which would mean the feelings of grief and rage would be four times stronger than those of Oskar. True, at times it was hard to put up with Charlie’s behavior, however, I found myself sympathizing for Charlie, because he lost more than Oskar. Now, some might argue that loss is loss, but everyone deals with it differently. I believe this is what we all have to remember.
Alex P also explored what Charlie and Oskar dealing with loss similarly revealed. She makes a very good point, saying that both characters have stopped mentally aging. However, I’m not sure we necessarily are clearly shown this with Oskar. To me, it seems that Oskar has simply decided to go by his clock, only playing for TEAM OSKAR. Charlie clearly exhibits childish behavior, from playing video games to riding around New York on an electric scooter. The main similarity I noticed between Oskar and Charlie is that they both think they are the only people in the world suffering from losing someone they loved. Oskar shows this by asking his mom, “Do you [miss him]”, and Mom replying, “Of course I do.” “But do your really?” “How could you ask that?” “It’s just that you don’t act like you miss him very much.” “What are you talking about?” “I hear you laughing.” “You hear me laughing?” “In the living room. With Ron.” “You think because I laugh every now and then I don’t miss Dad?” While, Charlie shows that he is trapped in his own self-pity bubble when Alan’s dad dies, Charlie asks Alan if Alan would like to go get some Chinese food.
The commonalities that Charlie and Oskar, Grandpa, and Grandma share definitely reveal that loss is loss, minus the circumstances, and the age, and the relationship, loss is loss. There are many unique ways of dealing with losing and letting go of a loved-one. Some keep their grief to themselves and others share it with everyone they come in contact with, where others simply pretend it didn’t happen. In the end, though, loss is loss. And it deserves sympathy and empathy.
Going back to what Christen N said. I strongly agree with her when she mentioned “They were similar in the sense though that they both connected to different things after their family members' death.” I noticed the same, and also that Oskar (perhaps because of being a child) will think of a way to react, without consequences, but as you read on, it turns out he was only thinking it, and does not react at all. This can be shown on pg. 145, when Oskar wants to “get back” at Jimmy Snyder for making fun of his Grandma, and goes on to beat him up severly. He imagines the audience at the end saying, “ ‘Thank you! Thank you, Oskar! We love you so much! We’ll protect you!’ It would have been great” This shows how mad he is, shows what he would like to do to Jimmy, but he doesn’t, because he has a conscience, as well as his innocence.
Comparing this reaction to Charlie, every time Alan mentions death to him, he goes on to act like a crazy person, this being either because he doesn’t want to even think about it, or too afraid to recollect his family’s memories. I believe Charlie doesn’t much care what he does at the start of the movie, because he has already lost every being important to him. So even if his reactions to some of the things Alan says to him are a bit extreme, it could just be his process of grieving.
Jennifer M stated something in her last post that gave me a new idea. She states that "Oskar only lost one person in the attacks. Charlie lost his wife and his three daughters," which got me thinking about the differences in what they still have. After his tragic loss, Oskar is left with a mom, grandma, grandfather (not that he realizes this), and even some buddies from school (who we never meet). What does Charlie have left? Only a pair of in-laws, and his best-friend, Sugarman. We all know how Charlie's once best-friend ends up being his financial advisor, a much less important role for a grieving man. Charlie's only remaining link to the outside world, his in-laws, are consistently avoided. That last bit may be Charlie's own fault, but outside of those people, he has nobody to help him heal over the death of his family.
What happened to Charlie's family was effectively the end of Charlie's life. When his family died, Charlie began a new life, all alone. This fact may be able to explai some of the glaring differences between Charlie and Oskar and how they treated their loss. Oskar was able to come back home from the funeral, and still have most of his family behind him. Charlie came home to nothing, and the end result was one of shock and dismay.
The reason I think that this caused the differences between the two to emerge is because the way that Alan was able to change Charlie from his complete state of denial. When Charlie and Alan met for the first time since being college roomates, Charlie was in his own world. However, after befriending Alan, and consistently meeting with him, Alan was able to lure Charlie out in to the real world, and he finally opened up.
Perhaps, if Charlie had been friends with Alan sooner, he could have began his healing much sooner than he actually did.
Kyle S's point that Charlie has no one left is very true. I have not considered that while both Charlie and Oskar have suffered loss. there is always a different kind of loss for every person. In some cases, different losses leave deeper scars. I can definitely see why Charlie gave up on life. To him, nothing mattered anymore. I wonder if this is what Oskar's grandpa felt after the deaths of Anna, his unborn child, and his parents. Was his loss as extreme? Undeniably. Just like Charlie, Oskar's grandfather had no one left to turn to. Since both Charlie and grandpa lost people in the same extremity, they dealt with the loss in similar ways. Booth chose to curl up and hide from teh world. The way I see it is that grandpa did not see any reason to talk to anyone anymore. In his mind, there was no one left that he cared to talk to, so he stopped talking. Charlie chose to "forget" everything. Again, he found nothing worth remembering aside from his family. Now that I think about it, I agree with thos who found such great similarities w=between Charlie and Oskar. Through their losses, both men share closely related feelings.
If there are different levels of loss, can anyone really understand what someone else is going through? When we say, "I know exactly how you feel," do we really? I have no real answers to these questions. The only way that we can all understand loss, in my mind, is to know that we do not know what someone else is feeling. HOw could we? Only by realizing this will we be able to truly understand how difficult it is to lose something.
As I kept thinking about the movie Reign Over Me and Extremely and Incredibly Close I realized another similarity between Oskar and Charlie. They are both extremely blunt with the things they say. I thought of Oskar asking his mother if her and Ron were humping when Charlie and Alan were in the record store and Charlie says that Alan's old friend is a "total dork". This is just one example of the inredibly blunt situations within the two stories.
I think that this could possibly be a coicidence or if this is something they have in common because of the similarities in their situations. Maybe it is a coincidence that the writers of the stories gave them similar characteristics or maybe it is an actual characteristic of people that have suffered this kind of loss. Maybe people that have lost someone close to them don't care what people think about them so they say things that can hurt people.
I think Alexandra M W had a very good point about Oskar and Charlie both being very blunt. They can also be rather rude. I think that these characteristics probably do have something to do with their losses, rather than it just being a coincidence. I think it’s probably a common characteristic of people who have suffered a loss, although I am not sure. I believe it might be because they don't care about offending people as much because to them not much matters anymore. On the other hand, Oskar does seem to care what people think of him most of the time.
There was just one other similarity I noticed that’s kind of weird and I might be totally off here, but I think Oskar and Charlie both try to avoid certain forms of transportation. Oskar was very scared to get on the ferry, and then the elevator of the Empire state building. However he wasn’t afraid when he was riding the limousines to his fathers funeral or again to his grave. Charlie doesn’t drive or take cabs. He prefers to ride around on his little electric scooter.
I disagree with Alexandra P’s statement that “[b]oth Charlie and Oskar act younger than they really are because of the losses they have suffered” (7/23). This statement applies to Charlie, but not Oskar. Charlie not working anymore, but instead living off government pay-offs and insurance money from his family’s death. He spends the majority of his days and nights playing video games and avoids alcohol because he isn’t able to control himself when he drinks it. He has temper tantrums when a subject he doesn’t like comes up and calls people he doesn’t like childish names such as “dork” for Nigel. Charlie hides from the world, just like an extremely shy child. Oskar, on the other hand, seems to have been matured by the process of loosing his father. He travels around the five boroughs of New York all by himself, talking to complete strangers. He, as mentioned by others, knows how to control his emotions when he would much rather simply express his anger. He figures out a complex trail of clues to solve a mystery. This is a very mature nine-year-old by any standards.
As for the question, ‘When we say, ‘I know exactly how you feel,’ do we really?” the “real answer” (Alex P) is no. Feelings are an emotional reaction to circumstances; therefore, someone with the same feelings would have to have gone through the same circumstances. It is hard to imagine anyone going through the “exact” same circumstances. Definitely, Charlie was not the only person to loose family on September Eleventh. Certainly, he was not the only family of victims who were on that plane. But did anyone else loose a wife, three daughters, and a dog? If so, did they also yell at their wife about a kitchen right before the plane took off? Slowly, the chances of anyone else living Charlie’s same life dwindles down to zero. The same can be said for Oskar. Similar feelings? Entirely possible, if not probable. Exactly the same? No.
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